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Untethered with Jen Liss
Are you ready to break free from the ordinary and start living a magical, fulfilling life? Join speaker, coach, and certified breathworker Jen Liss on Untethered, the podcast for ambitious dreamers, fearless entrepreneurs, and anyone ready to embrace their inner brilliance.
Each week, Jen interviews inspiring guests who are boldly living their most abundant and authentic lives—following their passions, sharing their gifts, and creating extraordinary success in non-traditional ways. Whether you're ready to pivot careers, launch a business, increase your income, or manifest your dream life, this podcast will motivate and empower you to take the leap.
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Untethered with Jen Liss
Shifting from Hustle to Flow - with Cathy Heller
What’s on your mind, unicorn? 🦄 Send me a text!
Let’s be real—hustle culture isn’t working. Ready to trade burnout for balance? If you’re nodding along, this episode is for you!
I recently had the chance to sit down with Cathy Heller for a live interview on Fishbowl Live, and it has so many good nuggets that they agreed to let me share it with you here!
Cathy has this amazing ability to challenge how we think about success and abundance, and as she's also been an incredible mentor for me, I’m thrilled to bring this conversation to the podcast.
In this episode, we talk about letting go of the hustle and embracing a more intentional, aligned way of living. Cathy shares so much wisdom from her book, Abundant Ever After, and we dig into how releasing control and staying authentic can unlock creativity, fulfillment, and opportunities you never expected.
This conversation is a powerful reminder that success isn’t about striving, trying, impressing, or grinding harder—it’s about trusting yourself, staying present, and building a life that feels meaningful and abundant.
What You’ll Hear in This Episode:
- How setting intentions and letting go of the grind creates space for unexpected opportunities.
- Why hustle culture isn’t the answer—and how to shift to a more aligned way of living.
- The role of authenticity in unlocking creativity and genuine success.
- The importance of balancing ambition with rest, self-care, and inner peace.
- Practical ways to cultivate abundance through gratitude, connection, and trust.
Why This Conversation Matters to Me:
Cathy has been such a guiding light in my journey, and getting to interview her was such a full-circle moment. Her teachings have helped me embrace a life of intention and creativity, and I’m so grateful to share her insights with you.
Resources We Mentioned:
- Cathy Heller’s book Abundant Ever After: CathyHeller.com/book
Connect with Cathy:
Mark your calendar for January 8th, 2025—it’s the annual Word of the Year Party! This is where we come together, set intentions, and choose the word that will guide us toward more meaning, more creativity, and more joy in the year ahead.
It’s totally free! To register, go to JenLiss.com/2025
Support the pod:
- Share an episode and tag Jen on IG @untetheredjen
- Follow/subscribe to get updates of new episodes
- Leave a review!
Music created and produced by Matt Bollenbach
Hi and welcome to Untethered with Jen Liss, the podcast that's here to help you break free, be you and unleash your inner brilliance. I'm your host, jen, and in this episode we're going to talk about letting go of hustle culture and inviting ease and simple success. Let's dive in. Hey there, unicorn, it's Jen. Welcome back to the podcast for an incredibly special episode.
Speaker 1:Before we begin this episode, I want to share with you a lesson that came to me after this episode was recorded, and the basis of this lesson is an idea that a lot of us hear but it's hard to trust. It's difficult to actually follow this concept and understand this concept, and it's an idea that's talked about a lot in the coaching world, and that idea is to set the intention and to bless it and release it and to trust that it is going to come your way. Now we hear this, we talk about this, and it's really freaking hard to trust this. Let's be really, really straight and honest, and I myself have had such a rollercoaster experience with this and, at the same time, the past couple of years, and just with my growth with this and my practice with it, I have begun to see manifestations, very real manifestations, of intentions that I placed out into the universe years ago, manifestations of intentions that I placed out into the universe years ago beginning to come to life. Now here's the second part of this idea of trusting, surrendering, blessing, releasing, believing that the universe has your back and that what is actually meant for you can't miss you, because when you set the intention out there and you open up to receive it, that that blessing will come into your life, which is actually something you're going to hear about in this episode more and more. There's the second part of it, which is that it doesn't always come to you in the way that you think, and that is a huge part of releasing the outcome, because you might desire to have this very specific beautiful house and that house might come to have this very specific beautiful house, and that house might come to you. It might be the exact vision that you have in your head, but it might actually be completely different and, even better, it could come to you in some new form, in some new way, not in the way that you expect or anticipate. In fact, the best things in life very rarely come to us in the way that we expect or anticipate, and, my goodness, what a lesson that is to learn, but this is one of those things.
Speaker 1:So what I'm sharing with you today is an episode, and this episode is actually me and a mentor of mine. She's been a mentor of mine for many years and I currently support her. I work on her team and so many things about this have manifested in this really wild way, but one of the things when I started this podcast she's my mentor. I love her, I appreciate her. She's helped me so much in my life. Her name is Kathy Heller and I, of course, at the top of my list of people who I want to interview for my podcast is the person who helped me start my podcast, kathy Heller. Of course I want to interview her and I set that intention. I also set it for Jim Carrey, so he's coming my way. Joseph Gordon Leavitt also coming my way.
Speaker 1:Many other amazing human beings that I have on that list, but one of them was Kathy. Now, I've never actually pursued or intentionally reached out to her and said, hey, will you come on my podcast, which that's one very normal way that she could have come onto my podcast, but I very much set that intention and I said this is one of those things that I desire to happen in my life. I blessed it, I released it, I continued on my journey and have interviewed some of the. I've actually interviewed some of the people who are on that list, not just Gordon Levitt or Jim Carrey. I ended up in a roundabout way that I never could have and I could have never imagined the way that this interview would have come about. In fact, I did not record what you are about to hear, this episode today, with intention to interview Kathy on my podcast.
Speaker 1:What actually happened is that Kathy has a new book. It's an amazing new book. If you have not purchased this book, please go purchase it right now. Kathyhellercom book. It's called Abundant Ever After. It will change your life. It will change your life. If there is one book that I have ever said on this podcast, go buy this book right now. It is this book right here Transformative. If you do not have $26 to go to kathyhellercom book, find a supplier and buy this book. If you do not have $26 to buy this book, I will buy it for you and I will send it directly to your doorstep. So send me an email to hello at genlisscom and I will give me your address. Give me your name, I will send you this book. This is how much I want everybody in the world to read this book. This is how much I want everybody in the world to read this book.
Speaker 1:Anyway, I work on Kathy's team and she needs somebody to interview her for this beautiful app that she is doing an interview on called Fishbowl Live, where they have you bring your own moderator and you moderate a conversation. She needed somebody to interview her, so I was like, well, of course I'll do it. So I interviewed her and then afterward I was like, oh my gosh, I just interviewed Kathy, basically a podcast interview. Sure, I might have selected a couple of the questions slightly't even because I want to have you on my podcast. It was because I want to support your book. I want more people to know about you, to know about your message. It came from a pure, just abundant, gorgeous place that I was just like. I just want more people to hear this. And that's how she ends up on my podcast. And I tell you this to hear this. And that's how she ends up on my podcast.
Speaker 1:And I tell you this, and I preface this entire episode with this, because this is how manifestation truly works. It comes from this place of following your intuition, following your trust, taking one step after another, setting the intention, blessing and releasing it, moving forward and then moving with everything from a place of pure goodness, joy, wholeness, fun, showing up in your magic, showing up for yourself, showing up for others in a way that you know is serving, and then it just happens. It just happens. This happens to me the more and more I really live by the principles of what Kathy is about to share in this episode. I truly I've been learning from her. Everything that I have been sharing over the past few years is because of the deep inner work that I have been doing.
Speaker 1:This entire podcast is because of the deep inner work that she was really the catalyst for me to move into this journey, and so, of any episode that I ever have put on the podcast, this is one to really listen to, and if you're interested in diving into Kathy's work, you can follow her podcast. It's the same name as her book, abundant Ever After. You can go to kathyhellercom and follow her. She's on Instagram at Kathy Heller. I work on her team, I support her team, so a lot of the things that you see out and about.
Speaker 1:I'm involved in and have so much fun getting the opportunity right now to work with her, and one of the things that she and I have an agreement it's like this is going to work for as long as it works. The universe in many ways told me that I'm intended to be supporting her on her team right now, and I love it. It's been so much fun and such a magical experience for me, so I'm so thrilled to share this episode with you, where you get to hear us just conversing about a few of the things that are really important right now, and one of those is hustle culture. We have been hustling every day. We've been hustling since the industrial revolution, and the earth is calling for something different. It's calling for change, and a lot of us are feeling this, and a lot of us feel like we're weird because we might be feeling something different. We might be experiencing something different than what our grandparents did, our parents did, what we were taught, and that's for good reason. There is a huge shift that is happening right now and the things Kathy is very much at the forefront and has been thinking about this and teaching about this for longer than COVID really accelerated the rate at which we are all really noticing that it's like, oh my gosh, there is a different way to do things and we're being called to do it differently. So open up your ears, open up your heart, open up your mind, your soul, for this beautiful conversation that was recorded on that app that I told you about Fishbowl Live. If you're a professional, it might be an app that you might you about Fishbowl Live. If you're a professional, it might be an app that you might consider checking out. There's a lot of really cool conversations going on there all the time, so you can check out fishbowllivecom, you can go check out their app and see if that's something that you might be interested in, and thank you to them for letting me take the audio from this conversation and put it on my podcast today in order to help get this message out there to more people.
Speaker 1:Now, before we officially dive in to this conversation with Kathy, I want to remind you that this week, january 8th, 5.30 pm Pacific time, I am having a party. It's my word of the year party. I'm going to show you why crafting an intentional word of the year, I truly believe, is your very best New Year's party trick. It is going to help you get through this year with intention, with ease, without hustle, with whatever it is that you are calling in. I have a specific process. I've been doing this for years. I think this is my sixth year, I don't even know. I've been doing this a lot of years. It's a lot of fun. Lots of people come back each year. We have so much fun reflecting on the word that we had last year and then the word that we're choosing this year, and if you've even already chosen a word, it's a great party to come to. So you can go to genliscom slash 2025, genliscom slash 2025, and you can go and register totally free. Come, come in your PJs, come in your best party clothes, come in costume, I don't care, just come, show up. We'll have so much fun. There's also going to be some giveaways. So go to genliscom slash 2025 and come and party with me. I would absolutely love it.
Speaker 1:Now, without further ado, I'm excited for you to get to hear this conversation with me and Kathy Heller. Let's dive in. So we're joined by Kathy, who is a bestselling author. Her book just came out on Tuesday. Snap your fingers for that. She's a spiritual mentor, entrepreneur, and this book that came out Abundant Ever After is already transforming the way that people think about success and fulfillment. So Kathy's here to guide us through really this important shift of moving away from the grind of hustle culture and moving toward a more intentional, aligned and abundant way of living. So we're going to explore some myths of hustle culture, how to clear emotional blocks that tend to keep us stuck, and how we can tune into ourselves and unlock the secrets to living our most abundant lives. So welcome Kathy, welcome everybody to this conversation that was so beautiful, jen.
Speaker 2:So beautiful. It's really fun to be here, and I just want to say right away, with so much humility, that each of you who are listening could be speaking, and I'm sure you do plenty of that and you have tremendous amounts of wisdom. And so I just want to start by saying that if anything I say feels true, it's because you already knew that, but sometimes it's good to be reminded of what we deeply know in our heart, and so I believe to be true, but I just want to acknowledge them. That's in everyone, that's in this room.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so beautiful. And, speaking of everybody in the room, we would love the opportunity at some point for you to be able to ask questions, so you can leave questions anonymously. If you would like to leave a question anonymously, you can also raise your hand. At some point. We might invite a few of you up to ask questions, because you'll probably have some questions for Kathy as we move through this conversation. So you're so welcome to do that and let's dive in. Kathy, what do you think?
Speaker 2:I love it. Anytime I'm talking to you, I'm happy and I'm up for that any day of the week.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, here's the top question that so many people probably have coming into this conversation. In your book, you actually challenge the glorification of hustle culture and the idea of working so hard, which is something that a lot of leaders, entrepreneurs, people who you work with every day really struggle with. What do you think are some of the most harmful myths about hustle culture that are causing people to feel burnout and to feel stuck in their careers and in their businesses?
Speaker 2:Oh, my goodness, just the question alone makes me want to take a deep inhale and a deep exhale. And you and I were talking about this the other day, as we often do. But you said to me that this is actually so controversial. And it's controversial in the sense that we're so married to the idea that the harder we work, the more successful we are, and that hard work is something to glorify to use the word you used before that it almost feels controversial to talk about ease. It almost feels irresponsible, it almost feels like shaking off what is your duty.
Speaker 2:And really, as Kate Northrup, a friend of ours, says so well in her book Do Less. She says, anyone who's ever worked on land, who's gardened or who's harvested or who's farmed land, knows that if you were to harvest the ground every single day, you would deplete the ground of its nutrition. And that is why, if you eat a tomato in the United States when you can go to the grocery store and at any moment everything is always in season 24-7, 365, those things stop tasting really delicious. But if you go to Italy and you go to a small town where they only harvest in the harvest season, that tomato, it's unbelievably life-giving. It doesn't even need balsamic because it's so delicious.
Speaker 2:And so you know, there is something to marinating, there is something to composting, there is something to simmering in something, as opposed to always publishing work, always hustling. It's like what about? You know? I've said before that if you take a little stone and you throw it in the water, you'll make a ripple. But if you take a big stone, you'll make a big ripple. So what's more important? Is it more important to keep just throwing stones and hustling, hustling, hustling? Or is it? Perhaps will it get you further if you were to truly come from a place of watering your own garden and then when you go to put something in the world, it makes a giant ripple.
Speaker 1:And maybe the slowing down then is actually speeding up your success. Yeah, so what does it really mean from your perspective, this idea of watering your own garden? What does that actually look like, especially if we're those people who are so used to achieving and doing and going? What does that actually look like?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I think that there is just this really fascinating thing that's happened in the world, where we've valued being human doings more than being human beings. And the brain. You know, as fascinating as the brain is, there's really no answers in the brain, you know, the wisdom is really coming from somewhere else, it's coming from intuition, it's coming from our heart, and so if we're not spending time really nourishing the capacity we have to listen, you know the word insight is very interesting because it's letting us know it comes from within. And so there is a practice that many people have now started to develop, which is some kind of meditation practice. And there's a reason for that, because when you deeply find a way to slow down, you get into gamma, which means your brain actually gets overridden by creative thought, which is faster than the speed of light.
Speaker 2:So the real geniuses in this world, you know Steve Jobs. People don't often know that he was a Zen meditator for 15 years before he started Apple. So his capacity to turn on such a giant light in the world came from having a real creative flow state. And creative flow state comes from overriding the amygdala and the brain and really slowing down to speed up, right, and so we know that Michael Jordan, we know that Phil Jackson had the bulls meditating right, and so I think, whatever we can do to slow down and to check in with the part of us that actually has wisdom, that would be what I would call watering your own garden.
Speaker 1:I'm curious. You talk about building a meditation practice and there's a lot of people waking up to the value of this. We see this in businesses. We see them starting to bring in some meditation and some mindfulness practices. That's definitely something that we're starting to learn. But when did you kind of wake up and realize this idea of tuning into yourself? Did you have? Can you share a story from your own life where this shift transformed your own path?
Speaker 2:up extending my trip for three years and so I stayed and learned Jewish mysticism and Kabbalah in the old city of Jerusalem for three years, which was quite life-changing. That was like hitting control-alt-delete on the software program in my brain and then, for whatever reason, I just felt compelled to move to Los Angeles. I didn't know anybody here and then right away I found myself at a meditation retreat at UCLA. They had this mindful awareness research center, which some people might be familiar with, and I wound up staying there for three years and that was really interesting, because my first meditation experience there was like torture and it was so hard that I was all of a sudden extremely compelled by it, because I thought why is this so hard for me?
Speaker 2:And my meditation teacher taught me something which really helped tremendously, and she said that meditation is not about trying to make your mind go blank. She said minds don't do that. Minds are always thinking. Just like hearts are always beating, minds are always swirling and the idea is not to not think.
Speaker 2:The idea is to become a witness to your mind and, instead of being caught in the blizzard of the thought, you are witnessing the blizzard, which means you are now accessing the part of you that is in touch with your consciousness. You are conscious, you're not unconscious, and so, from the part of you that's conscious, you can select the thought. You can choose what you want to think, rather than being unconsciously in a deluge of thoughts. And why we know that's bad is because all thoughts actually detrimental to our cells, and certain thoughts can create serotonin and dopamine, and so by choosing to think certain thoughts, becoming conscious and choosing to be the captain of what your brain is choosing to focus on, you could actually make your body well, and so that was like a major up level. And then I spent a few years studying meditation, and then I was teaching meditation for a few years in 2007, 8, 9. And then I started noticing that everything I was doing in my business was having a tremendous result because of my spiritual practices, and then I started teaching those.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I'm curious if you can share.
Speaker 1:And then I started teaching those, yeah, so I'm curious if you can share. Now. I've been down this rabbit hole with you because, for everybody in the room, I myself was in a corporate job and I found myself stuck and I was like Kathy I don't even know if I've ever told you this story I was looking for something. I was like I want to grow and I don't know how. And I went to every single coworker of mine and every single leader who was in my general jurisdiction and was like, what should I do? What should I do?
Speaker 1:Nobody could tell me what I should do, of course, and so I went to a podcasting app and I literally wrote in creative career help and your podcast came up, and I found your podcast and it led me down this rabbit hole and there were so many things that I did not realize that I was thinking and doing and being that was not helpful, and so, if you could underscore a few of those things that you think you kind of generally see, these are the things that people are out there doing that are making things so dang hard for them when it could be different, because now I'm living the different myself and I see you helping people with this all the time. It's like so many stories just like me. What do you think some of those top things are that people could be shifting in terms of their thoughts.
Speaker 2:Well, one of the biggest ones, which is really fascinating, is the part of us that resists authenticity. And the reason why this is so critical for creative work or for entrepreneurship is because, in order to have an audience, in order to have a business, in order to scale right and have visibility, you have to do something really brave, which is you have to stand out. And in order to stand out, by definition, you can't fit in. And the reason why that's so interesting as it relates to creative work and as it relates to business, and why I think this is really pervasive in thought, is because, as Mark Grove says, all day long, people are being given a question which is do they belong or do they so badly that we choose to self-abandon so that people will like us. And the reason why that's really interesting is because Rick Rubin recently was talking about creative work and he said most people are afraid to be polarizing, but in order for work to be really successful, it has to be polarizing, meaning, if you make a podcast and everybody loves it, you probably haven't gone far enough, because the things that stand out, by definition, they will have a point of view, which means, in order for something to really, really capture and really really take off. You have to be willing to go all in and really say something. You can't be vanilla ice cream, right, and this is why we talk about.
Speaker 2:In a business, you have to choose your niche. You have to have super fans, right, and so you have to be willing to go all in. Rather than saying I'm going to make something that every single person likes, you have to say I'm going to be so committed to being authentic and I might trigger the people who don't like it. And actually that, to me, is the thing that gets stuck the most in people's mind, because typically people will be afraid of fully unleashing.
Speaker 2:And the people who go the distance whether it's Jim Henson or Lady Gaga these are not people who are playing it safe. In fact, most people, when they create something, the first time they create something whether they're putting up a logo or whether they're writing a song or they're starting a business the first thing they usually feel inclined to create is a sum it's an average of everything else that's already been created, because they're not taking a risk yet. But eventually they take a risk and then they become Picasso. Right, but when Picasso first started, there were people who, you know, really felt like that was like the antithesis of art, but that's what makes it great. So I think that eventually, if we want, really bet on going all in and the things that make us quirky and weird will be the things that actually become our superpowers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that sounds really scary to most of us, the idea of like being your full, you know, authentic self being weird. Letting yourself especially if you're talking about in business, where you're who you are is so wrapped up into everything that you're doing, whether you're showing up at work every day and your coworkers have certain expectations of you and your role has certain expectations, or whether you have a business. So, kathy, how do we be more ourselves and feel like we're safe to do that?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, one of the reasons I just wrote this book is because I want people to have a mirror that's held up to your face and you can actually start to see yourself in your true identity, which is the power that lives in you, right? The reason we all love Wicked and Elphaba is because she realizes there's no Wizard of Oz. She's the wizard and we are each the wizard. And when you get to be 85, and, god willing, we'll all live past that the only person you answer to is yourself and your creator. And that's the most satisfying place to be. Not to try to be getting the approval from everybody around you, because then it's never enough right, because then you're only whole based upon an external force making you whole. And the truth is that, at the end of the day, most people are not supposed to like everything that everyone does right. There's diversity. Some people love Indian food, some people love sushi, some people like country music, some people like musicals. What's wrong with that? As my friend Susie Moore says, it's not a problem if people don't like you. It's a problem that you think it's a problem. How many times do you go to a party and you leave and you say to your husband, these three people. I loved everybody else, eh, but that's fair. Do you like everybody? Do you like every song that comes out? Do you like every book that gets published? No, why should you? We're not meant to be the thing that 8 billion people in the world say oh, that's my favorite thing. We're meant to serve the people that we are meant to serve. And when you remember that, you realize, oh, what a relief. I don't have to convince everybody to be my buyer. Not everybody is your buyer. You don't have to convince vegans to come to your steak restaurant. They're not interested. That's fine, let them be right. You're making this for steak people. Seth Godin was just saying to me that the reason why Cracker Barrel is so successful is because they know their audience and they're not trying to be a Michelin star restaurant. They're not interested. They're not trying to be a Michelin star restaurant. They're trying to be Cracker Barrel. They're trying to be the thing that's perfect for when you come off the freeway and you need a quick bite on your way on your road trip. That's a very different kind of restaurant. So they're all in on that. They're not offended that they're not getting a Michelin star. That's not their mission, right. So it's like you deciding who you are in the market and deciding that it's a completely okay thing if some people are not interested in you. It's a relief, it's great. It's great, it's wonderful.
Speaker 2:Whenever you and I because Jen and I work together we go to launch something, I don't feel like it's my job to convince everybody that I'm their cup of tea.
Speaker 2:I'm definitely not everyone's cup of tea and I often say that I'll be like if this doesn't feel like it's for you.
Speaker 2:There's a million things that probably are for you, because I'm not everybody's person and it makes it easier for me truly to sell to my people when I give everybody the permission that they don't have to like it.
Speaker 2:It's the best feeling in the world to remember that your assignment is not to people-please your way into life. In fact, I'll go further and say if you're living in your moment of your life and you have no haters, you're probably people-pleasing, because if you are not people-pleasing, someone should probably take issue with something you say or think or believe and that's actually how you know. That's a good litmus test to know that you're being authentic, because that is the way it works right, and we're such people pleasers. We're so codependent that we just don't come out as ourselves, and Bronnie Ware said that the greatest regret of the dying is people feeling like they didn't live life according to themselves. They lived the life that everybody wanted them to live, because it was safe. They played it safe. So I mean that is a good reason to get up and start being honest and let go of the need for people to approve.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it was something that you said there that just really lands. Is that idea that, if you're you even just said it you said trying to be perfect, and we're talking about this idea of hustling and hustle culture and striving and trying, and we're all out there trying to achieve so often so this idea, can you give us a link, Kathy, Because your whole book is about this abundance and living in this state of abundance, which you say is so simple, and yet we're out there striving and trying so much. So can you connect how those two things like what is the missing link for us that we're just not seeing in this way that we are out there trying to perfect things and do things? How could we make it easier?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, it's because we live in a culture where, literally, whether we're conscious of it or not, non-nonstop everything is telling us the same message, which is, if we achieve more, we'll feel like more inside. And so we then decide that abundance equals a pile of things more followers, more business, more money. And then, by the way, it's always more, which means, no matter where you are. For you to finally feel good, you just need more. So you never arrive, because you always need more, because it's always outside of you and it's always about how big of a ladder can you climb to a bigger pile of things when the truth is that we didn't come to the world. A bigger pile of things when the truth is that we didn't come to the world for a pile of things. We're not interested. It's not that interesting. You're not really here because you want a Range Rover and a house and a pile of cash. What you really want is the abundance that feels like inner peace. What you really want is the abundance that feels like courage and expression. What you really want is to not just be successful, but to be significant in the world. Well, you can be significant every day by walking through the world and really being present with anyone you meet, whether it's the bus driver or the barista. You can feel rich by feeling inner peace. There are people who they're so poor all they have is money, right. And at the same time, there's nothing wrong with having an abundance of everything, an abundance of goodwill in your heart, an abundance of creativity and an abundance of money. Because since we are all one, we are all literally one. We live in one ecosystem. The redwood tree that thrives is giving life to the entire forest, and so when you have money, you become a steward for more abundance in the world. You create businesses, you buy things in the marketplace. Abundance just immediately creates abundance. So that's also great. But the real abundance you're after is the feeling of the lightness of your own being. There is no amount of cash that can take the place of feeling at peace in your heart. And so when you really know that, you know that that is easy, because at any moment you could feel gratitude, boom. At any moment you could feel just in awe of the beauty of the universe. And if you really start practicing that, you realize you're so rich.
Speaker 2:I mean, my grandmother was so poor and came from such horrendous circumstances, and she taught me how rich she was growing up because she went to the library and she taught herself to read and she would take herself on travels, so to speak, by reading Jane Austen, and she used to take an eyeliner pencil and draw a line up the back of her leg to make it look like she had stockings, because she couldn't even afford pantyhose. And she would dance through life and her only requirement for who she wanted to marry was I want to marry someone who's a good dancer. Because she wanted to be able to be with someone who could find the joy, no matter how much money they had or didn't have. And, of course, they wound up becoming successful because my grandfather was a dancer and then because he knew how to find flow state, he found flow state in the business world also and he created the cardboard that goes into men's dress, shirt, collars, and he did actually create a huge business from that.
Speaker 2:But from nothing, like from actual nothing, they turned that into something. But it's coming from energy, right, I'm sure it was the energy he had when he would walk in and do quote, unquote, you know, sales calls that actually sold the business, and so the most abundant thing we have is our energy. When somebody walks into a room, the most impressive thing is not what car they drove, it's what their energy is like. Drove, it's what their energy is like. And when we plug into the source of our energy and we feel tapped in and turned on, we feel abundant and we make everybody around us feel abundant, and then we don't need material things to feel abundant.
Speaker 1:I think we can all picture somebody in our lives who is that person, who just feels energetically abundant, and so what you're saying makes so much sense. But can you justify? It's almost Christmas and we all probably have some things on our Christmas list, some very practical, physical things. Maybe it is a Range Rover, maybe it's something, maybe it's a toaster. Whatever that thing is abundance that we want? While also understanding this energetically, how do we actually manifest these things into our reality in an easeful way? That is not this striving, trying, trying, hustle thing that we've all grown to know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it's interesting because the best way to have what we want is to create from a place of wholeness. Right, if you go on a date and you want the guy to really really, really like you and you really need to be liked you're going to ruin the date. But if you go on the date and you feel good in your own skin and you're enjoying your life, the person is way more likely to just be so into you because you're just really creating that wholeness and so wholeness creates wholeness. And so when we remember that there's no urgency for any things that we need, because we're already really grateful and we're already just enjoying the moment we're in, because we're feeling alive and excited and expressed, and feeling just excited about whatever project we're doing, in and of itself, we are enjoying the journey. We're much more likely to manifest material things because energy creates matter. And so when we're working on a podcast like I started my podcast eight years ago in my linen closet and had no sense of how, I think it's been downloaded 45 million times now.
Speaker 2:I didn't have an Instagram account at the time. I didn't have email, I didn't know what I was million times now I didn't have an Instagram account. At the time, I didn't have email. I didn't know what I was going to do. I didn't care. To me it was like, could I be all in on the doing of it? Could it feel so fun just to go to sleep at night and tell myself I did this thing, I just created this thing that I'm just so proud of having shared something and made something I enjoyed making, and, on the other side of that, it sort of opened the door to a whole lot, because, as Wayne Dyer says, we don't get what we want. We get what we are, and so I think it's really exciting to just be so lit up and so in overflow all the time. When you're feeling abundant right now, it's amazing how you'll get better ideas, and don't forget that every billion dollars ever made came from a creative idea right, and so being inspired. In order to get the creative download, we need to be in a state of being where we're feeling like we're available for the download, and so I think it's fun to play and to remember that, and I also think one of the reasons that we don't have a lot of material things is because we can't have more of something we have a bad relationship with, and I think part of the problem of why people don't receive more money is they have a really toxic relationship with money.
Speaker 2:They actually deep down feel like it's not safe to have it. They feel like the more money they have, the more greedy they are. The more money they have, the worse of a person they are. That's not even true, right? The Bible verse that people get wrong is they say money is the root of all evil. It's actually not the way it says. The verse says the love of money, right.
Speaker 2:So the idea is that we've painted money and material things as being, like you know, just the devil's work. It's not true. Every hospital in the world has somebody's name on it, right? The truth is that you could be a good person and have no money. You could be a good person and have money. You could be either one, right, and so you could be a terrible person who has money and you could be a terrible person who has no money. It's not mutually exclusive.
Speaker 2:The Talmud says that money is like rain falling in a garden it's an activator, and if the rain falls on weeds, weeds grow, and if the rain falls on roses, roses grow. So whatever you are, you will become blessing of money. You'll do a lot of good with that money. If you're a person who's not in integrity and you have a blessing of money, you'll just be more of a bad person with money. So that has to be dismantled because if deep down, you think that having a lot of things will make you judged or you will become a person who doesn't have good values anymore, then you will literally hold yourself back from being successful because you are afraid that that money will take away your integrity and that's not true. So that's another important point to make about manifesting material wealth.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, it's so good and such a shift in the way that we think about money. I mean for myself that belief that it has to be hard to make money and that money is the root of all evil. That's ingrained in so many of us from the time that we're very little and we hold it in our bodies. I just want to very quickly reset the room and then we can continue on that thought. We're here right now with Kathy Heller bestselling author. Her book Abundant Ever After just came out this week, and we're speaking about this idea of really what hustle culture is doing wrong. What us buying into this idea that working hard is the way and shifting ourselves more toward this simple, easeful way of receiving abundance, which is what you teach so clearly in your book.
Speaker 2:Somebody just sent me a question anonymously and she said can you give advice to women when you're in a male-dominated sphere and it feels scary to fully step up? Because she said, sometimes then your label does aggressive right. Good question, and it is a great question. And the other day I posted on Instagram that I wrote my new book for my grandmother, for my daughters, for my mother and for myself and honestly, it really is such an important question because we have to zoom out and realize that what's happening right now, literally like me being in the world right now at 45 years old, this what's available to me and who I'm becoming right now.
Speaker 2:This is a first graduated high school before women's lib. So when my mom graduated high school, she was told by her college counselor that she had two choices she could be a teacher or a secretary. That's it. That was her choice, right, and she actually wanted to be. She wanted to be a Broadway actress. She was in all the plays in high school and the girl who played her understudy in high school was going to audition for a Broadway show right after they graduated. And the girl who played her understudy in high school was going to audition for a Broadway show right after they graduated and my mom said oh well, if I want to be a mother, I can't have a career. Like she was told it's one or the other. And so this woman auditioned. The show was called Little Shop of Horrors. This woman got the lead and then they made the movie version and she was the lead in the movie Ellen Green.
Speaker 2:My mom grew up with her and my mom told me that story her whole life, like she couldn't believe that this girl did that. Because what she was told is you either can be a mother and have a life, a family life, or you can have a career. You can't do both. And this other girl who did this and got the part she didn't get to become a mother. And this other girl who did this and got the part she didn't get to become a mother. So my mom said to me you are the first generation, right, because my grandmother didn't even know how to drive a car or write a check, right? That wasn't a thing for my. Do it all perfectly right, like if you're gonna be a mom, be the most conscious, mindful mom and have organic food, oh, and if you're gonna have a career, then do that all the way also and balance them all. Just figure out how to balance. It's like we don't have a model for this right. So it's actually quite amazing that we're even in this time as women, and that's why I say I wrote this book for my mother, my grandmother and my daughters Because, funny enough, I don't have three boys. I have three girls. Those are my kids and I wanted to show them that I believe it's possible that they can do something they love, that they're passionate about as a career, and also be a good mother, and so that was my intention to set out and do that. And all of this is an important conversation because realize like we are the generation that is new and doing all of this really right, and so it's fascinating.
Speaker 2:Priyanka Chopra said to me I want to just give her the credit because she said this. She said that as she was kind of coming up in her career, it was interesting to her because women were the ones that would give her sort of like shade and it was like men that were giving her praise. And she said it was because she feels that when women sometimes see a woman rising, it's very confronting and they feel threatened because they feel like they've been taught for so long that there's not enough room for them. So when they see a woman doing that, they're like who is she to do that? I don't give myself the power to do that. And Priyanka said maybe we should turn it around and say, if you see Reese Witherspoon sell her company for a billion dollars which she did, hello sunshine. You should shine her crown and say thank you for now paving a way and opening doors for me. And I think that that's the bottom line is that I actually think we're in a season where we can be bold, and I think our boldness, I think what will happen is, while some people might be triggered by seeing a woman who's really in her power, like a disco ball, I think that's also a gift, because when you trigger somebody, you're also helping activate in them what needs to expand in them so that they're not triggered but rather they're inspired.
Speaker 2:And what I've said to people when they listen to my podcast is I don't want you to think of it as like look at me, but more come with me. You know, when I started podcasting eight years ago, 12% of podcasters were women, and that is completely ridiculous because we make up half the world. We're still not 50%. Podcasts are still not 50% hosted by women, but we're getting better. I think it's like 26% now are still not 50% hosted by women, but we're getting better. I think it's like 26% now. So we're on our way and I think we all need to remember that we will rise and that someone said this the other day. She came to one of my book signings and she said I just want you to know that as you're crossing this ocean, so to speak, there is a line of women that are watching you cross and is giving them the permission they need to cross to. So keep going.
Speaker 1:Wow, kathy, I'm curious for you because that question that that woman asked you is so personal. You've been on this journey yourself. You continue to put yourself out there. You started this podcast. You've really moved through this from an entrepreneurial space of you going first. What do you feel like is one of the hardest things that you yourself have had to continuously come up against, because we all have those things. What has been that thing for you?
Speaker 2:I mean, it's been a lot of those things. I remember when I first made my first hundred grand. So you guys, as a businesswoman just so you know I've had a few businesses. My first business I was a songwriter and I wound up taking my music. I had a record deal. I got dropped from Interscope. I had another record deal at Atlantic. I got dropped.
Speaker 2:And then I worked in commercial real estate for three years because I met a guy in line at the Cheesecake Factory. He said you have great energy, you can come work for me. He sold $100 million shopping centers. I did that for three years and then one day I looked at myself in the elevator door mirrors and I said what the hell am I doing selling commercial real estate? I'm a songwriter. I had a record deal. I felt like a guitar that was being used to hold a potted plant. It was like this isn't my job, and so I quit that job. And then I asked a question that I had never asked, which was is there any other way I could be successful as a songwriter besides having a record deal? And I wound up licensing my music to TV shows and ads and film. And I did that by becoming my own agent and making cold calls to Ogilvy and Deutsch and Leo Burnett and literally flying to Chicago and flying to Minneapolis and writing songs for Target and writing songs for Grey's Anatomy, and that was literally a business. And then I started a licensing agency where I licensed other songwriter songs.
Speaker 2:And then one day I was on a podcast and I was teaching songwriters the business of songwriting and somebody said start an online course. So I started an online course called Six Figure Songwriting. Then the course made a few million bucks teaching songwriters the business of songwriting. Then from that, one of my students said why don't you start a podcast? I started a podcast which was at the time called Don't Keep your Day Job. It was all about how you can get paid to do creative work. And then from that I started teaching people, five years later, how to get into flow state so that you can be your most powerful, spiritual, creative self. And then we renamed the podcast Abundant Ever After.
Speaker 2:And so I've had a bunch of businesses, including now we host retreats and do online courses and I write books and podcasts, and so all of these businesses have been successful and I think if you look at something that somebody does once, you might be able to chalk it up to luck, but if somebody is successful over and over and over again in different things, then there must be some strategy. And so I've been sitting here now pulling apart what has been the method to the madness and to answer your question, jen, I just wanted to give them some overview of my business world. But, to answer your question, every time I hit a new milestone, it was scary, a financial milestone as well as sort of career milestone Meaning. When I first made 100 grand, I was like whoa, I'm a songwriter that's making a hundred grand from licensing music. That's crazy. And then I made 300 grand licensing music and I was like, are other songwriters not going to like me? Like, are people going to think I'm like a sellout Cause I wrote a song for McDonald's, you know? And then it was like no, actually I wound up inspiring other songwriters that they could have these advertisements become the investor for the weird alternative album they wanted to make for themselves. They could like get paid to do one thing that would actually, you know, pay their mortgage, and then they could do 10 things that were just creatively inspiring.
Speaker 2:And then, when I started a podcast, I remember thinking who the hell am I to start a podcast Like there's a million other people that are better than me. So there's no end to the moments that I've had to call upon courage. My career was growing, I made my first million and then I kind of got to a sort bit more successful that I will outgrow our relationship or you will feel emasculated or we will somehow break up and I'm afraid of being more successful because I'm afraid of burning down my whole life. And I think that that's so interesting that that came up for me, but it did. And then my husband had a really good response and he said you're afraid to outgrow me. He said you've already outgrown me. And he said and what I mean is? He said you have more confidence and courage than I have. And he said but please keep going, because I'm going to catch up. And I thought that was just such an honest answer. And I say all that because I think that the thing that we're all really afraid of, as Marianne Williamson says, is our power, and all of this on the journey is actually it's asking us to choose to be powerful, which it's much easier to stay shrinking in order to not be in our power, because we worry that we will lose people in our life. And I'll just say this one last thing my friend, alex Benayan, wrote a book called the Third Door and in the book he interviewed Lady Gaga, warren Buffett, maya Angelou, steven Spielberg.
Speaker 2:Anyway, it's an amazing book. And he said that life is like a nightclub. And he said there's always a third door, meaning to say most people wait in line for the first door and there's always a line around the block of a nightclub and people wait and they wait and they wait. And that's how most people live their life. They're just waiting to be chosen. And he said but then there's always a second door and that's like the VIP line for people who have a famous father, and most people don't get born on the VIP line, on the VIP line.
Speaker 2:And then he says but the really successful people take door number three, the third door, which is why he called his book the Third Door, because he said those people will just find another way in. And my favorite part of his book is that he said that the hardest part of going through the third door it's not finding the third door, it's leaving the line for the first door, because when you go to leave the line. You feel like you're going to leave behind everybody you love who's still waiting right Because they're afraid. It's like Moana going past the reef, and the stakes are really high, and so I think that that's what happens. But then, on the other side of having the courage to go beyond the reef, a lot of people follow you and say thank you for going beyond the reef.
Speaker 1:If somebody's in that space of kind of realizing, you know, maybe it is time to really follow my heart, to follow my intuition, to listen to myself and whatever that is. Maybe it's leaving the job, maybe it's switching to something else, maybe it's simply speaking up in a meeting. What advice would you give to them?
Speaker 2:Well, my friend Mark Groves, who I mentioned earlier, he said something so powerful to me, which is he actually said it on stage to all of us at the summit that I hosted two weeks ago, and he said liberation is a two-way street. So when you liberate yourself, who does everybody else get to choose to be Because you stepped into your truth, to be because you stepped into your truth? So I think the reason we don't tell the truth is because we feel people can't handle it. But I think that's patronizing, like what if you just decide that people can't handle it? And then who does everybody get to be? Because everyone, all of a sudden steps into their authenticity. So that's what I would keep in mind you've interviewed so many people.
Speaker 1:You've interviewed Matthew McConaughey, for goodness sakes you guys. She has interviewed Deepak Chopra. You mentioned Marianne Williamson earlier. She's come on your podcast. So many great thinkers and also so many people who've achieved so much and you yourself, you've achieved a lot. In your book you emphasize really the fulfillment over achievement. How can somebody shift their mindset to prioritize that sense of inner peace and authenticity that you're talking about, while still pursuing those big dreams that we have, pursuing what is next for us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I think it's a yes, and I mean I talked about earlier how I spent three years in Jerusalem and I wrote about in my book how, you know, I also lived for a year in Spain during college and I love that in Spain they take these like siestas in the middle of the day, like the culture is just like so willing to live quality life, where they take like three-hour naps in the middle of a Tuesday, and then in Jerusalem, like they take an entire day off. It's like Friday night to Saturday night. Just all the kids are riding bikes, everybody's slowed down like the. You know, the shops are closed, everybody's home with their family, people are at the park playing soccer. It's like a real Sabbath, you know. And I think that it's a yes, and I think that you can have six days a week where you're like, want to build something, but then you need that balance right. And so I think that there are other cultures that do this just so much better, where they have a little bit more balance, and I think putting a little balance in your life reminds you of the both. And it's great to want to create things, it's great to want to turn thoughts to things. It's great to want to build things because it's fun. When we were kids, we loved to build things build forts, you know and come up with things in the backyard. That's all still fun.
Speaker 2:But recently I was just mentioning earlier today that I was talking to Sofia Amoroso, who created Girlboss, and when I was on Zoom with her, she was in Hawaii in this like little 500 square foot little studio apartment and she said you know, right now I'm sitting in this like little 500 square foot little studio apartment. And she said you know, right now I'm sitting in this like 500 square foot studio apartment and I'm so happy because I built Girl Boss and I went from 100 grand to 200 to 500, to a million, to 100 million until she said I got so depleted and the whole thing went bust and I realized that I abandoned myself and I hated my life. And she's like and now I'm like swimming in the ocean every day, have a tiny little studio apartment and I'm drinking green juice and I'm so happy. And so she said whatever I'm going to build next, I'm going to remember to make sure it feels right size for me, and I think that that's what I always keep in mind. It's like.
Speaker 2:The name of the game is not more and bigger, it's how do you feel Like? What quality of life do you have on a daily basis? That's the name of the game.
Speaker 1:So if we are at that place say some of us are at a place of realizing, oh my gosh, I just want to burn it all down. I am to that point of maybe somebody's even at burnout or just realizing I'm hustling way too hard, I'm not in alignment, what is one practice or tool or suggestion that you could give them that could start them on this journey of coming back home to what you call that well of abundance with actually, I don't even know if those are your words, Kathy, but what would you call that?
Speaker 2:That place that they're coming to how?
Speaker 1:can we do it? How do we do it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I'll tell you a story that, jen, you always tell me you love, which I think illustrates this. But I think that the bottom line is like you're either and you know this because you teach and you facilitate breathwork, somatic work At any moment in the day you're either feeling that your nervous system is regulated or it's dysregulated, right. So that's number one. It's like check in with your body. Have you taken a walk today? Have you been outside today? Have you slowed down? Are you breathing right? Number one check in with your body. Don't forsake your body, okay. And number two remember that, as hard as we think it's supposed to be, the best things in our life come through synchronicity. The best things in our life. We did not plan how we would meet our best friend. We did not plan all the little things that had to happen for the river of life to lead to the most magical things that have happened. And really, really, really, that is how the best things happen. So our job is to be feeling well-being, and when we feel well-being, we will be led to amazing things. And so to share that story that I mentioned, that you love, jen, which I think illustrates this really well.
Speaker 2:I went to Podcast Movement when I had first started a podcast and I was standing in this room and everybody was handing out business cards and it was a networking event, and I noticed that my body started feeling really dysregulated because I didn't bring business cards. I didn't like the energy of quote, unquote networking energy and so I started to feel a little bit stressed and I turned to my friend and I said, oh, I didn't bring business cards, but if I had brought business cards, what do you think is the thing everybody's after right now? And she said well, people want to meet other people so they can do podcast swaps number one and number two. The dream, she said, is that everybody is hoping to meet the Apple podcast team, because if Apple podcast features you, that is a really big exposure tool for your podcast. And I noticed that I felt really stressed out, just like being in an environment where everyone was trying to get something from everyone else. So I said when does the event start? And she said it starts in about an hour, like the panel discussions. So I said you know what, I'm going to leave and I'll come back in an hour.
Speaker 2:And I left and we were at the hotel. I walked a couple blocks to another hotel and I walked into the lobby and there was somebody playing piano in the lobby. I sat down in this atrium, I ordered a nice tea and then I started to feel my body was at peace again. I just felt I was enjoying a nice tea on a nice day. I felt like myself again and, sure enough, I start talking to this guy who's sitting next to me and we realized that we both have the same badge from the conference and we start talking and next thing I know he tells me that he was the head of Apple Podcasts and he hands me his business card and he said I'd love to take you to lunch.
Speaker 2:And I said, oh my gosh. And I look at his business card. And he said I'd love to take you to lunch. And I said, oh my gosh. And I look at his business card and I see the address and I said you know, my daughter goes to school on that street, right in front of that building, and I've always wondered what building that was, because it has valet parking but it has no sign on the building. It's just a really fancy building. I said so I'm going to be there every day this week to drop her off. He said well then, come have breakfast with me tomorrow. And then I went and then I had this really amazing relationship with Apple that has continued to grow and I'm still very close with him to this day.
Speaker 2:And I tell that story because contained in that story is the answer to everything I'm saying. When you decide to put your well-being first and you trust that what's meant for you will come, it will always come, because you are the recipient of feeling good in the moment, which is what you wanted anyway. Why do you want to have exposure? Why do you want the thing? Why do you want? Well, you want to feel good. Why don't you just feel good right now? So when you make the feeling good, the thing that you practice doing, you'll always be led to the most amazing synchronicities.
Speaker 1:I love this story for all of the reasons. It just really hits home with me, though, personally, because how many times do we abandon our own wellbeing and how many times have we done it throughout our lives? I think of just from the very simple when you very start going to school and that it's like you need to go to the bathroom and it's like no, or you're so uncomfortable sitting in these desks and it's just like this is how it has to be, it's how it has to be, it's how it has to be, and we just spend our whole lives just abandoning the signals that our own bodies and our minds are telling us and we just override and override, and then it impacts everything in our lives over time.
Speaker 2:I mean it really does. And it's such a bummer because, like I said, anything that you think you want to achieve anyway, you want to achieve it because of how you think it'll make you feel. So why would you wait for something to happen to make you feel that good? Why don't you just start feeling that good now and doing the things that feel that good, which might be taking the pressure off and really just feeling good, putting your feet in the grass? And it's just amazing.
Speaker 2:Ryan Holiday was saying to me that he went on this vacation and he really didn't want to take the vacation. And when he finally got there, three days in, he was playing in the sand with his kid and all of a sudden, he had the most amazing idea for a book. Because everything works better when you unplug it for a little bit. It's like the hustling actually rids you of your capacity to turn on your real power, which is flow state, which is genuine overflow. And when you're in a room and you're just overflowing with wholeness, just everything good will come to you and you're just overflowing with wholeness, just everything good will come to you.
Speaker 1:It's so true. How do we so? You gave us a couple of tips on just get outside, start listening to your body a little bit. What would you say is the next step, as we kind of bring this conversation to a close, how can we take it even one step deeper? Is it starting a meditation practice? Is it well, reading your book could be a really great next step for everybody on this call. But what do you think would be the very next thing that people could do?
Speaker 2:Yes, definitely go read the book. I honestly think that you will love, love, love it, and I would love you to read the book and then DM me on Instagram or wherever and say what you learned from chapter one. That would be amazing.
Speaker 1:Where can people find?
Speaker 2:it. You can find it anywhere Amazon, barnes, noble Target and then if you go to kathyhellercom book, we have a bonus which is a two-hour free class on manifestation and meditation, which you might love. And you get that when you order the book and then just go to kathyhellercom slash book and then you can collect your bonus. I say to people, the same way that you select what you want to wear every day, I want you to take a second and select how you want to feel today and I want you to become just programmed, the same loop. It'll think what it thought yesterday, which will make you feel what you felt yesterday, which will make you feel what you felt yesterday, which will make you do what you did yesterday. But if you really want to have a real imprint and you really want to create, you have to tap in and turn into the part of you that's conscious, not unconscious. And so what if you selected how would you want to feel today? What does ease feel like? What does joy feel today? What does ease feel like? What does joy feel like? What does it feel like to play, and maybe play a game with the universe and say, god, I'm going to do my part, I'm going to be present today and I'm going to notice awe and beauty and gratitude and I want you to show up and show me the synchronicity. I promise it'll show up in your day. I mean, I told you this story, jen. It was just uncanny.
Speaker 2:I went to dinner in July. My dad died July 3rd. I was like we went through hospice, we went through the funeral, we went through sitting Shiva, and then a couple of weeks later, I go to dinner with my kids and there's this woman sitting next to me and I could tell she was on a first date. And so I stood up and I said can I buy you dessert? And she and the guy she was with were like oh my God, that's so cute. I'm like are you guys on a first date? She said yeah, so I buy her dessert. I've never done that before. Well, I buy them dessert. She gets my number, she texts me later and she's like thank you for the dessert.
Speaker 2:And I said you know I'm a widow. And she said this is my first date in five years. And she said you buying us dessert made me feel like my husband, my late husband was giving me his blessing. And she said you don't understand how big that was, because I've been afraid to go out on a date for five years. And I said, oh well, that is so beautiful. And I said, and my dad died July 3rd and this is the first time I've been out since hospice and funeral and all that. And she said, oh well, my husband died five years ago, on July 3rd.
Speaker 2:And I share that, because I think all day long we're so busy in lack, worrying about when our big payday is going to happen or our big achievement, that we miss the mystical all the time. And when we just turn on our capacity to be where we are and be present and be loving, the most amazing mystical experiences happen that feel so much better than the quote-unquote things we're trying to achieve. So I would remember that wherever you are is always the right place at the right time, and practice turning on your capacity to be this loving force and this person that's already in a state of gratitude and ease, and just notice the mystical experience that will happen.
Speaker 1:I hope you enjoyed getting to meet Kathy and enjoyed us diving into that conversation Again. That was recorded on Fishbowl Live, which is an app and a platform for business people, people who are in the corporate world and people. I think even there's some entrepreneurial stuff on there. There's definitely some healing conversations. There's all kinds of conversations happening on there that you might check out and, if you have not yet, be sure that you check out Kathy's book. It is called Abundant Ever After and you can go to kathyhellercom slash book. If you buy the book, enter your order number there, because then we'll send you some of her really cool bonuses that she's got available and you'll definitely want to dive into those alongside the book.
Speaker 1:Thank you to Kathy, thank you to Fishbowl Live and thank you to you for showing up for yourself, for Thank you to Fishbowl Live and thank you to you for showing up for yourself, for listening to this episode, for stepping into this year refreshed, renewed, stressed out.
Speaker 1:Whatever it is that you were feeling right now, it's all good, it's all wonderful, it's all delightful and it's all happening exactly for you, even if there's a little bit of stress that you're feeling right now. Whatever it is that you're feeling in your body is good and right, and just remember that, because sometimes we step into the year feeling like we should feel a certain kind of way, and whatever it is that you are feeling in your body right now is exactly as it's intended to be, and when we can realize that we can step in in a whole new way, knowing that everything is working for us, everything is supporting us. So remember that and you just keep shining your magical unicorn light out there for all to see. I hope to see you at my word of the year party. Go to genliscom slash 20252025 to register and I will hopefully see you there. I'll see you next time. Bye.
